He wears the image of the Black Madonna on his lapel or on his shirt, but not because he wants to. It is a kind of promise made publicly. He claims that, since people gave him shirts or put rosaries around his neck, he had no right not to wear them. He believes that it is a sign of trust on the part of the citizens and for him it is an obligation that he must fulfill.
— When you went to Moscow, did you have the Virgin Mary on your lapel? – asks Magdalena Rigamonti.
— Not only on the lapel. We also carry a large painting with her image. Can you imagine? Our Lady in the Kremlin. I prayed to her, looked at her, and she gave me a sign and told me what to do. I saw it, answers Wałęsa.
He adds that he is “old-fashioned in matters of faith,” and believes in “the Lord God, the Mother of God, Jesus,” and does not verify it. — I believe that priests are saints, but they are still people. Their vocation is to teach and lead. And just like teachers, they can be good or bad, says Wałęsa.
In his opinion, he achieved unattainable things because the “finger of God” helped him. — How can you explain the fact that I signed the treaty on the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Poland, was in the Warsaw Pact and the Soviet Union, and had troops in Poland? When I went to Moscow with a painting of the Virgin Mary, maybe they thought I was haunted? — asks the former president.
In the next part of the conversation, Magdalena Rigamoni asks the president about his relationship with Father Franciszek Cebula, who was Wałęsa’s confessor and who, after finishing the chaplaincy, allegedly committed pedophilia. [Sprawa została opisana w filmie Tomasza Sekielskiego i Marka Sekielskiego “Tylko nie mów nikomu”, w której to sam ksiądz przyznał się do swoich czynów i swojej dorosłej już ofierze chciał przekazać pieniądze. — przyp.red].
—I had a very close relationship with him. He confessed my marriage to my Danuta. I liked him very much and when I became president, he became my chaplain. It was a shock when I found out what he was doing with the children. I couldn’t believe it – after all, they also said I was a secret service agent – says Wałęsa. I’m from the old school, I believed that a priest preaches the word of God, that those who live in chastity cannot do such things. I have not yet experienced what he and Prelate Henryk Jankowski did. [oskarżony o pedofilie — przyp. red]. I don’t know if I’ll ever recover from this, admits Wałęsa.
In the next part of the podcast, Rigamonti asks about abortion. Wałęsa’s answer to this question is unequivocal: “Those who are affected by it must decide. I am not talking about this issue.”
When asked about religion in schools, the former president says it is necessary, but must be adapted to the reality in which we live.
In the next part of the podcast, Rigamoti asks Lech Wałęsa why people like Rydzyk, Jędraszewski and prelate Henryk Jankowski have become the faces of the Polish Church. – We let them in and we are responsible for it. We do not participate, we are not interested, we do not watch over, we do not control, it is our fault, not theirs. If we do not care, why should they act differently? – concludes Wałęsa.
Then he adds: – The church is necessary because it is a place of reflection, where one can sit and think. During communism, it was a shelter, but it also allowed people to think and organize themselves. Today we still have to think and live in a certain order.
What is “Examination of Conscience”?
Church. To some, it is a discredited institution that cynically uses religion as a tool to make money. To others, it is the rock and source of all goodness and love. “Examination of Conscience” is not just a podcast about the Church. This is a podcast about people whose careers, and sometimes entire lives, have been (or still are) influenced by the institution of the Catholic Church. If you have no religious feelings, be sure to listen. If you do, listen even more.
